14Perhaps one of the most marked differences between a classic thought experiment in Western analytic philosophy and a story in Zhuangzi is that in the former, there is a clear question being asked. Les vres de Matre Tchouang. For one, the hypothetical thought experiment involves a situation or type of person that is often simplified and underdescribed, meaning we might not know in the imagined case what the right thing to do is. It is at this juncture which we return to Zhuangzis answer, to Kun skyward transformation into Peng, and to the scoldquails ignorance of Pengs necessity to soar so high for so far a journey. 1985. 2008. 2003. 2004. Tang, Yijie. Each moment, the opportunity to switch between Huizi and Zhuangzi presents itself. Jena: Diederichs. Still, Zhuangzis resulting conclusion was not aware of fish happiness presumes that fish happiness is a real thing beyond the human-specific setting. Zhuangzi says to Huizi, The ability to prevent chapped hands was the same in either case. Zhuang Zi . 2015. Jackson uses this thought experiment to argue that because Mary gains some knowledge the first time she sees red, she didnt know everything to know about color through knowing all the physical facts about color and so, he says, the thesis of physicalism (i.e., the idea that everything is physical) is false.8. Other philosophers have subsequently offered slightly different variations of the trolley problem, but in all of these it is assumed that the humans involved are human beings with normal capabilities and desires who just happen to be in a very unfortunate situation. Register to receive personalised research and resources by email. 8 Jackson has actually since changed his position on the thesis of physicalism and he no longer thinks its false. This admittedly is a different kind of similarity, one involving the similar, Jackson has actually since changed his position on the thesis of physicalism and he no longer think, Roy Sorensen 1992 has a discussion of several criticisms on the use of thought experiments, stories, This is uncharacteristic of Western thought experiments where the philosopher presents the imagined, One could, for example, think here of Zhuangzis famous butterfly dream that concludes chapter 2 of. I filled it with liquid, People want to make sense of him and offer a charitable interpretation where the various threads in his writing can be woven together so we can attribute a consistent view to Zhuangzi. Legge, James, trans. London: Bernard Quaeitch. Sometimes the human beings are normal human beings, but they are involved in highly unusual situations. 2012. Huizi and Zhuangzi about gourds; the story of Cook Ding (sometimes called Butcher Ding); and the story of Wheelwright Pian. xX[oH~G?*sTU\KX%v8_sRW7dZ,0w.sil7>?gO:[eU9>~jtYUM^}g{8{' ) ^$p+(p0 $. IYfqrdJG&EYRI-an8p/'eZR;.KZ|veHGd#a:KHiEk]`s#I1IB#P`Hqq ,15#H&Y\' k,Wr/qf3yxA[ab8bi_?%+F&)SYT{jDj pa8C%pF|40:RU[s$.Th.-_V{`rM`&1tLu!P&dp*I$bsr&g0H8{$.XWk@GAuu'vg-:Gy0TjmVjS=;1Wq E|[_0# &1LY[(ehob}kl]X. Learn more about Institutional subscriptions. This word is also used in the title of the first chapter of the Zhuangzi: Free and Easy Wandering (xiao yao you ). I used them as water containers, but they were so heavy that I couldn't lift them. Afterwards, one leaves behind the fantastical elements of the thought experiment and is just left with a proposition about human morality, epistemology, etc. One could, for example, think here of Zhuangzis famous butterfly dream that concludes chapter 2 of the Zhuangzi or of his testimony about his reaction to his wifes death in chapter 18. He hobbled over to look at his reflection in the well. Perhaps none other than reflection, broadening of the mind, wonder. 26But perhaps Zhuangzi doesnt want to be charitably pinned down; perhaps this attitude itself is a kind of (Western?) https://doi.org/10.1007/s11712-020-09765-6, DOI: https://doi.org/10.1007/s11712-020-09765-6. WebHuizis truism that Zhuangzi is not a fish shows some appreciation of the problem of SpR, but the ensuing conclusion that Zhuangzi couldnt know fish happiness assumes that Tang, Yijie. WebAn interesting legend of Zongzi has been passed down through generations from ancient China. All Is Well in the Great Mess. We could leave out the trolley and avoid questions about why it's a runaway trolley and why you can't shout to the people on the tracks (which, if it were a real case, would seem like very reasonable things to do). Such thought experiments, if they exist, are probably not considered good (Western) thought experiments. 30Perhaps if only Zhuangzi and others didnt come up with such memorable traps. Lynn, Richard John. Saggi in onore di Diego Marconi, Portale di risorse digitali in scienze umane e sociali, Differences between thought experiments and stories in Zhuangzi, Catalogo dei 610 riviste. Bradley, Scott P. 2015. Sorensen, R., 1992, Thought Experiments, New York, Oxford University Press. 2003. 5Thought experiments have long been used in philosophy as a way to raise questions or pursue knowledge through considering hypothetical situations. In The Sacred Books of the East, edited by F. Max Mller. 2010. Graham, A. C. 1981. Kjellberg, Paul, trans. The unrealistic nature of a thought experiment is one thing that can differentiate it from other counterfactual reasoning. 2023 Springer Nature Switzerland AG. Beijing : Zhongguo Huaqiao Chubanshe . My shoulders are peaked. Cheng, Anne. Indianapolis: Hackett. We are less interested in the person offering up the thought experiment or in figuring out how it relates to other things that person has written. What is there to dislike? For example, in Chapter 1 of the Zhuangzi there is the story of a fish named Minnow turning into a bird named Breeze and being laughed at by the cicada and student-dove.19 Here Zhuangzi suggests that it is only because the little bugs have such a small perspective that they cant understand bigger things, so while its understandable that they laugh, its due to a short-sightedness on their part. Lin, Yutang , trans. And like Zhuangzis creative innovation, turning a gourd into a boat, the greater, higher man recreates what is possible for himself. This is not to say that all thought experiments incorporate all of these things, but a good thought experiment will often touch on several. All Is Well in the Great Mess. Some scholars have suggested that Huizis argument is self-contradictory; however, in fact, based on such evaluations of Huizis argument, we can conclude that Zhuangzis logic is also self-contradictory. Chinese and Western philosophy in dialogue, Anecdotes and thought experiments in Zhuangzi and Western philosophy. The goal is to figure out what to do in the actual case, which can shed light on what our prima facie duties are in other actual cases. ______, trans. So I smashed them.2. 2010. Rather, we are freed when we can leave this (human) self and life behind. Liu, Qingping. WebHuizi and Zhuangzi. At this point one might reasonably ask: why bother stretching peoples imagination? The Tradition of Emotive Writing in the Zhuangzi and Its Echoes in Later Generations. Frontiers of Philosophy in China 10.3: 340352. Dordrecht: Springer. If you are content with the time and abide by the passing, theres no room for sorrow or joy. Indianapolis: Hackett. Again on Qing: With a Translation of the Guodian Xing Zi Ming Chu. Oriens Extremus 47: 97159. Morgan, Jeffrey. Perhaps Zhuangzi sees his role as roaming through the world and drawing our attention to the various kinds of creatures and reactions to life they can have, but he himself wants to remain silent on the question of which lives or responses, if any, are best. His epigrams and parables praised those who achieved mastery through constant practice of a skill, following their own inclinations, He scorned complicated explanations and theories. WebThe Asian master of wit and storytelling is the Daoist, Zhuangzi (sometimes spelled Chuang-Tzu). On another nearby track there is only one person working. Or in Searles Chinese Room, Searle argues that because he is functioning just like a computer running a program but understands nothing of the meaning of the inputs and outputs (in Chinese) that he is manipulating, so artificial intelligence, just in virtue of running a certain program, does not have understanding. over 2,300 years ago He taught the Tao, or way, an approach to life based on effortlessness and harmony with Zhuangzi. Wang Bi and Xuanxue. In Dao Companion to Daoist Philosophy, edited by Xiaogan Liu. To smash it into pieces is to say, This thing is just a waste of space and a frustration for me. Wheres the problem? you might be wondering. Virg, Curie. In the same way, your teachings have no practical use., Zhuangzi replied, This tree may be useless as lumber, but you could rest in the gentle shade of its big branches or admire its rustic character. To learn about our use of cookies and how you can manage your cookie settings, please see our Cookie Policy. 2004. New York: Seven Bridges Press. WebAnother storyHuizi and Zhuangzi about gourds starts when the king of Weis large gourdgives Huizi gourd seeds. Zhang, Gengguang , trans. Zhuangzi and the Happy Fish Dialogue. Xu, Bing . 2013. Why else would he deem the gourd worthy of destruction? This is the dialectical nature of the universe we discussed in the previous analysis, a nature that runs to the bottom of existence itself. 2003. There is a question in the literature about whether Zhuangzi is more of a relativist or a skeptic15, and it is often hard to pin down what his own stance positive stance is, if he has one. Wang Bi and Xuanxue. In Dao Companion to Daoist Philosophy, edited by Xiaogan Liu. 1When it comes to persuading people to acknowledge a truth or think a certain way, there are many ways that we try to discover and convince each other of the truth. I planted them, and when they grew, the fruit was a yard across. 22The above stories show that sometimes Zhuangzi is forthright on what he thinks about a certain creature, human or otherwise. 2005. Despeux, Catherine. Nothing Can Overcome Heaven: The Notion of Spirit in the Zhuangzi. In Hiding the World in the World: Uneven Discourses on the Zhuangzi, edited by Scott Cook. The Zhuangzi presentation of Hui Shis views concludes: He had many perspectives and his library would fill five carts but his doctrine was selfcontradictory. Why should we be so troubled by an arm that turns into a rooster? Early Confucian Perspectives on Emotions. In Dao Companion to Classical Confucian Philosophy, edited by Vincent Shen. new essays on wine, taste, philosophy and aesthetics, arte, psicologia e realismo. HuiZi said to ZhuangZi, "The Prince of Wei gave me a seed of a large-sized kind of gourd. Liu, Xiaogan. Google Scholar. In fact, there is more value in destroying it than keeping it around. Now imagine we were discussing an idea, say, a potential solution to a problem. Reding, Jean-Paul. Why not lash them together like big buoys and go floating on rivers and lakes instead of worrying that they were too big to dip into anything?21. Must? Leiden: Brill. Once weve gotten the message e.g., about utilitarianism, physicalism, or transformations in life Zhuangzi is suggesting that in some sense we can leave behind the artificial intellectual trap that got us the idea. For example, Robert Nozick imagines a machine that can give a person whatever experiences she desires.16 While in this Experience Machine the person will really feel the pleasure of those experiences and will not know that its all just a simulation. . One reason 2001. We use cookies to improve your website experience. In Les pres du systme Taoste. Bradenton, FL: BookLocker. Guiyang : Guizhou Renmin Chubanshe . Beijing : Zhonghua Shuju . Zhuangzi and Hui Shi on Qing . Tsing Hua Journal of Chinese Studies, New Series 40.1: 2145. Eno, Robert, trans. Oxford: Oxford University Press. Our text offers three additional examples: Nie Ques conversation with Wang Ni; Huizi and Zhuangzi about gourds; the story of Cook Ding (sometimes called Butcher Ding); and the story of Wheelwright Pian. The video below (Flight from the Shadow) is an example of the type of teaching he engaged in. 2004. <> Indianapolis: Hackett. Qu Yuan was a versatile government official at that time, and he was highly 2015. 2015. Feeling in Zhuangzi: From Joy to Serenity. In Expressions of States of Mind in Asia, edited by Paolo Santangelo. 1993. 4This paper has two main sections. Anyone you share the following link with will be able to read this content: Sorry, a shareable link is not currently available for this article. <>>> 16Piggy-backing on this, after a clear question is raised through the thought experiment, there is often a claim being advanced by the originator of the experiment. Guo, Xiang , and Cheng Xuanying , annot. 2018. Feng, Youlan, trans. Chuang-Tzu: The Inner Chapters. Das wahre Buch vom sdlichen Bltenland. In Dao Companion to the Philosophy of the Zhuangzi, edited by Kim-chong Chong and Kai-Yuan Cheng. This is a preview of subscription content, access via your institution. Such a tree has grown to a ripe old age by adapting itself to its environment. And my neck bones point to Heaven. But though his yin and yang qi were fouled, in his mind there was nothing the matter. The vehicle of story makes Zhuangzi memorable for sure who can forget the idea of someones arm turning into a rooster? 2015. 2011. Chong, Kim-chong. Zhuangzi and Hui Shi on Qing . Tsing Hua Journal of Chinese Studies, New Series 40.1: 2145. 13 Roy Sorensen 1992 has a discussion of several criticisms on the use of thought experiments, stories, and intuition pumps, as Daniel Dennett calls them. Beijing : Zhongguo Huaqiao Chubanshe . Xu, Bing . Saggi in onore di Lucia Pizzo Russo, la neurofenomenologia. Psychology and Self-Cultivation in Early Taoistic Thought. Harvard Journal of Asiatic Studies 51.2: 599650. In comparing the features of Western thought experiments to fables from Zhuangzi, we will see that although Zhuangzis stories would likely fail to be considered good philosophical thought experiments (according to the Western tradition), the very thing that makes them fail is arguably what allows the writings of Zhuangzi to continue to inspire philosophical reflection and dialogue. My back is hunched out. Insofar as these are aims in philosophy, Zhuangzi might do better in prompting these in his reader than one who puts forth a self-standing thought experiment advancing a particular thesis. The specific type of fiction that Western philosophers use is often called a thought experiment. 1968. The Philosophy of Life: A New Reading of the Zhuangzi. I further argue that the central concern of the two philosophical personae in the passage Zhuangzi and Huizi is not with the epistemic standards of human judgements (the established view since Hansen, The Relatively Happy Fish), but with the more basic problem of species-specific perspectives. 2010. He is sabotaging the very tools he might have used to explore his unconscious self and discover something useful. Emotions and Genuineness in Chinese Native Thinking: A Response to Graham and Hansen ():. Journal of Beijing Youth Politics College 14.1: 4852. 2007. What follows is that the expression wuqing should not be identified as a doctrine of nonemotion. Instead, wuqing implies that Zhuangzi advises us to lead a life of tranquility, calmness, and stillness. Albany: State University of New York Press. Well end by analyzing a parablea conversation between logician Huizi and a fictionalize version of Zhuangzi himself: Huizi said to Zhuangzi, The King of Wei gave me the seed of a great gourd. 2018. Therefore, this paper mainly focuses on the logical aspects of the debate. 2013. This is uncharacteristic of Western thought experiments where the philosopher presents the imagined case and then discusses what it implies. Chuang Tzu. Zhuangzi writes: Suddenly, Master Chariot got sick. 18In this vein perhaps we could draw an analogy between Zhuangzis work and some works in modern art where its not always clear to the observer what the artist was going for. What follows is that the expression wuqing should not be identified as a doctrine of nonemotion. Instead, wuqing implies that Zhuangzi advises us to lead a life of tranquility, calmness, and stillness. A true language learner must be like the crooked tree of Zhuangzi, not seeking perfection of form, but prospering by taking advantage of surrounding resources. The thought experiments here and conclusions about the imaginary cases are taken to help defend a certain stance (e.g., against utilitarianism, against strong artificial intelligence) that the philosopher wants to take. (Melchert 86). Fundamentals of Comparative and Intercultural Philosophy. PubMedGoogle Scholar. 2014. The Tradition of Emotive Writing in the Zhuangzi and Its Echoes in Later Generations. Frontiers of Philosophy in China 10.3: 340352. Now you had these gigantic gourds. Psychology and Self-Cultivation in Early Taoistic Thought. Harvard Journal of Asiatic Studies 51.2: 599650. He points out that imaginary cases reveal moral principles to us which we can then use to determine our attitude in a new case10, and this can be especially useful when something about certain features of real cases distracts us from what is actually morally important. Dschuang-Dsi. Albany: SUNY Press. I filled it with liquid, but it was not firm enough to lift. You asked me how I know what fish enjoy so you already knew I knew it when you asked the question. Guo, Xiang , and Cheng Xuanying , annot. Such is the happiness of fishes. You not being a fish, said Huizi, how can Dordrecht: Springer. Albany: State University of New York Press. Sometimes he offers a direct commentary on a certain character or view; other times he doesnt. You lose it when its passed. Were There Inner Chapters in the Warring States? Even though the lessons are in story form, that doesnt mean that they are easy to decipher. A New Commentary on the Zhuangzi [in modern Chinese] . Most scholars have understood qing in this exchange as referring to feelings or emotions. We take issue with such readings. Napoli: Universit degli Studie di Napoli LOrientale.. ______. 3Of course there is no way in one paper that I could hope to take into consideration the variety of contemporary Western thought experiments and compare them to even half of the fables we find in the Zhuangzi. He is trapped within the boundaries of his own preconceptions. 3 0 obj They are used in all branches of philosophy, including ethics, metaphysics and epistemology. Cheng, Anne. Our hypothetical logician has forgotten that for an argument to be sound the premises must be true and they must follow to the conclusion. Chuang-Tzu. Even if we are confident about what to do in an imaginary case, the criticism has been raised that thought experiments dont actually reflect a truth about reality; rather, they just reflect our beliefs about reality13. Daoism: Laozi and Zhuangzi. In World Philosophy, edited by Jay L. Garfield and William Edelglass. Klein, Esther. Hansen, Chad. Reding, Jean-Paul. Words are for meaning: when youve got the meaning, you can forget the words.26 Zhuangzis fantastical stories, along with the most beloved Western thought experiments, are devices that philosophers use to communicate a certain message, and in Zhuangzis case it might be a message that goes beyond words. In seeking the truth, philosophers have long used fiction and counterfactual scenarios to raise and answer questions, to foster dialogue or give a commentary on some facet of life. Lin, Yutang , trans. Puett, Michael J. 2015. Forthcoming. My organs are all out of order. The debate between Zhuangzi and Huizi has profound epistemological significance, however, the main body of their debate comprises logical inferences and 2015. In Readings in Classical Chinese Philosophy, edited by Philip J. Ivanhoe and Bryan W. Van Norden. It amounts to life-affirmation or to life-denialto acceptance or to rejection. Jackson, F., 1986, What Mary didnt know, Journal of Philosophy, 83: 291-295. Beijing : Zhonghua Shuju . Napoli: Universit degli Studie di Napoli LOrientale.. A snare is for rabbits: when youve got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. One reason 2004. Such is the happiness of fish. Huizi said, You are not a fish, so whence do you know the happiness of fish? Introduction: Emotions and the Conceptual History of Qing . In Love and Emotions in Traditional Chinese Literature, edited by Halvor Eifring. I cannot stress enough the importance of being an independent individual in order to achieve success in language learning. New York: Columbia University Press. 2003. Register a free Taylor & Francis Online account today to boost your research and gain these benefits: An International Journal of the Philosophical Traditions of the East, A logical analysis of the debate on Hao River, Department of Philosophy, East China Normal University, Shanghai, China, /doi/full/10.1080/09552367.2022.2108108?needAccess=true. China. Feeling in Zhuangzi: From Joy to Serenity. In Expressions of States of Mind in Asia, edited by Paolo Santangelo. One might also describe this as engaging in Socratic Dialectical thought. Again on Qing: With a Translation of the Guodian Xing Zi Ming Chu. Oriens Extremus 47: 97159. WebHuizi said to Zhuangzi, The king of Wei left me the seeds of a big gourd. Then I will explain some differences in the way Zhuangzi presents and uses fictional anecdotes. Bryan Van Norden and Philip Ivanhoe write of Zhuangzi saying, rather than delivering a message, the Zhuangzi seems to go out of its way to defy understanding. had a gourd of over a hundred pounds. In these classic thought experiments, and many others, there is a clear question being asked. Although these differences arguably make Zhuangzis anecdotes poor thought experiments, according to Western analytic standards, it seems that if the purpose of a fabricated story is to encourage the reader to broaden her philosophical outlook, to see something more clearly that she might not have seen in a more realistic case, or to provide a more memorable way to retain a point, then Zhuangzis stories are highly effective pedagogical tools. Eno, Robert, trans. Chen, Guying , trans. Zhuangzi: The Inner Chapters. He sees his potential and is motivated as if by a guiding star upon which a wish might be fulfilled. London: Bernard Quaeitch. Or consider the story of Huizi and the yard-long gourd that was too big to be a ladle so Huizi smashes it because it was useless.20 Zhuangzi then tells a story about a smart traveler who knew how to make good use of an ointment for chapped hands. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Zhuangzi and Huizi were strolling along the dam of the Hao Waterfall when Zhuangzi said, See how the minnows come out and dart around where they please! He believes he knows what a gourd is capable of and useful for; and therefore, he believes that his conclusion about his great gourd is correct; therefore, he believes that his trials (filling it, cutting it into a dipper, etc.) Arthur C. Danto e l'ontologia dell'arte, Il Significato Eluso. https://doi.org/10.1007/s11712-020-09765-6, https://www.academia.edu/35172330/Zhuangzis_Doctrine_of_No_Emotions_forthcoming_in_Dao_Companion_to_the_Philosophy_of_the_Zhuangzi_Kim_Chong_Chong_and_Kai_Yuan_Cheng_eds_final_draft, https://scholarworks.iu.edu/dspace/handle/2022/23427, http://www.terebess.hu/english/chuang.html. What is there to dislike?There is no commentary from Zhuangzi himself on this story23, except that he writes of other people who also testify that whatever Heaven does to them, they do and should receive without resisting. He presupposes the correctness of his own logic, and when the world shows him that he is incorrect, say through his failure to actualize some potential, he takes this as evidence that the world is incorrect. This was in the introduction to my book, The Linguist, A Personal Guide to Language Learning which I wrote a few years ago. Recommended articles lists articles that we recommend and is powered by our AI driven recommendation engine. Chen, Guying , trans. Roth, Harold D. 1991. 1920. His language did not hit his target the intent to make sense of things. This suggests that Zhuangzi saw Hui Shi as caught in a paradox. Must? Ironic, then, that our representative of logic, logician Huizi, is not capable of such creativity. Beyond the Troubled Water of Shifei: From Disputation to Walking-Two-Roads in the Zhuangzi. 18ZDA031]. Zhuangzi. Once a conclusion has been reached, the presupposer in question rejects all evidence which contradicts his premises. I planted it, and it bore a fruit as big as a five bushel measure. In Western thought experiments although there often are elements that defy reality as we know it, it is understood that that kind of setup is necessary to bring out certain features of a problem that do correspond to our reality. In this sense, though the stories are often fantastic, the book is meant to offer a realistic lesson in the uselessness of trying to figure out life.18 So that might be the message stop trying so hard to understand, to look for a (main) point, to have things to make sense. No potential conflict of interest was reported by the author(s). Jackson has actually since changed his position on the thesis of physicalism and he no longer thinks its false. Such distractions can be left out of fabricated cases so that we can better focus on the relevant moral principles. Monica Link, Anecdotes and thought experiments in Zhuangzi and Western philosophy ,Rivista di estetica [Online], 72|2019, online dal 01 mars 2020, consultato il 02 mai 2023. One effect of this is encouraging the reader to think outside the box and see things from various perspectives. It is vital to note that Huizis acknowledgment that Zhuangzi is not a fish demonstrates some truism in the problem brought about by SR. 12With Western thought experiments often the goal is to bring us back to a truth or situation about human life. 2004. Please read this book to learn how to take advantage of the abundant language resources and opportunities for communication that surround you. volume20,pages 133148 (2021)Cite this article. Price excludes VAT (USA) It is to Zhuangzi that we now turn. Thats what fish ______. crits de Matre Wen , . There can be no value in it. Monica Link, Anecdotes and thought experiments in Zhuangzi and Western philosophy ,Rivista di estetica, 72|2019, 7-18. Imagine that you are the driver of a runaway trolley heading towards five people who are working on the trolley tracks in front of you.

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